Gotta Lighten Up Right Now
I’m sick of inter-religious conflict. Click here for a good summary as to why.
If the pope or the rest of the world is “ignorant of Islamic history and culture” and mistakenly believes that Islam is spread through violence, guess whose fault that is?
One f*cking guess. Make it a good one.
Taken with his speech as a whole, Pope Benedict XVI said nothing wrong. And he certainly said nothing that justifies violence against anyone else. I don’t care what The New York Times says about the subject.
Most people in the western world (read: Christians) would say that they know little about the Koran. I know this – the Koran has more than a few lines calling for violence against non-believers. These calls for war against infidels are quoted by terrorists and used as justification for killing innocent people.
Americans in turn use this as justification for discriminating against Muslims, detaining innocent Muslim people, etc. Such fools are hypocrites as well. If the Koran is guilty of inciting violence (and it is) then so is the Torah and the Christian Bible as well.
If God is timeless and all knowing – how is it that the Bible contains passages that condone, even endorse, slavery? What about the parts of the Torah calling on parents to kill their children for not observing the Sabbath? It’s enough to make any moderate, thinking, clear-headed Jew or Christian throw up. And then begin to question the very existence of God.
A friend once said that those sections were simply reflections of the times in which they were written. That’s an intellectually dishonest argument. If those unfavorable sections are not God’s word, perhaps none of it is. Perhaps all three holy books are reflections of an earlier, barbaric time and that’s it. Parables and stories. Nothing more.
I don’t know. Part of why I like Judaism is its emphasis on the history of a people. Our holidays are more a celebration of historical events and traditions than the mumbo-jumbo of religious magic. Mumbo-jumbo is a part of each event, don't get me wrong, but not the emphasis. I used to say that “Jewish atheist” was an oxymoron. I don’t think that way anymore. Now, don’t get excited, Ma. I’m not an atheist. All I’m saying is – shit’s unclear.
I don’t understand people who say: I escaped death on 9/11 (or any other tragedy) because God was looking out for me. Really? Then why the F*CK wasn’t he looking out for the other three thousand people that day? Misguided folks who credit God with the good – do they in turn blame God for the bad? They must or their thinking wouldn’t make any sense at all. Not that making sense is a goal of the religious. Not anytime. Not anywhere.
Ancient Hebrews took a good idea, monotheism, and Christians ran with it. The goal was to reform a barbaric world. Take a look around. Did we achieve that goal or make it worse? The answer is a tough one. But guess which way I’m leaning. Just one f*cking guess. Make it a good one.
posted by kate @ 5:50 AM
15 comments
15 Comments:
I never really realized until now how so little you know about so much and that you are so willing to expound upon it. Takes guts and lots of gutter language. Keep it up, girl. You're right in the mainstream.
I wish my thoughts and ideas were mainstream, but all I have to do is look around at all the godd*mned fish decals and I know I'm out of the loop.
You'd lend more credibility to your words if you cited an example of what I don't know and also if you took down that picture. You look like a dirty old man about to be institutionalized.
Just in case you weren't aware.
Wow. It's getting harder these days to find an Oriana Fallici liberal. Generally, liberals these days define themselves by being against anything the right is for.
For my part, I don't know whether Mitch is coming at you from the right or the left (could be either).
I agree that the Hebrews came up with some good ideas. I don't know if monotheism is one of those (the Hellenistic peoples were polytheists and their achievements are many, including Democracy). I would also agree that Christianity did something useful - it expanded the idea of God's blessing from a genetic group to a memetic group, which lets anyone in the door so long as they stick to the knitting.
But, frankly, I'm starting to ask myself what good Islam does? What did it add to the story that makes it useful? In other words, people often assert that if we were all one religion, things would be fantastic. But there hasn't been a time in history since Mohammed died that the Islamosphere hasn't been at war with itself.
And while Christianity (and to a much, much lesser extent, Judaism) has had its internecine conflicts, we really have to point more toward the one big period of the Reformation for most of the blood shed. So it's really - it seems - the exception rather than the rule. That is, Christianity has generally been used for cover for violence, but Islam simply IS violent. Passivity is the exception to the rule. Jesus was the Prince of Peace. Mohammed was the Warrior.
As an atheist, I'm not terribly fond of religion at all, but I'm willing to accept that it has been of tremendous use (look at the secularist societies of the 20th century: USSR, China, Cuba, Cambodia, Germany... and you've got a recipe for unparalleled human misery). I just don't know what use Islam has in the present time. That is, if they were all Buddhists instead of Mohammedans, I think the world would be better off.
Islam was useful in uniting a bunch of merchants and mauraders. But it was once useful for some elephants to have fur. (And that begs the question of whether tactical use is the same as cultural or moral use.)
Its about time you came to realize us agnostics have it right!!! People are destructive because people are people and it is in our nature to be assholes to one another.
Happy Monday Moonbeam!!!!
Mitch is coming at me from sideways and backwards. Per usual.
I used to believe that Islam, along with the 250 denominations of Christianity and the more strict sects of Judaism, brought more people to God and a moral way of life - so that's a good thing. I still believe that to a certain extent. However, I wish everyone would practice selectively. In other words, celebrate the beauty of your faith and leave everyone else alone. Then the world would be a much better place.
And btw, who cares what the pope thinks? His comments did not warrant fire bombing a church!
Chris - I guess I am closer to your way of thinking. Which scares the shit out of me.
How could I possibly cite an example of what you don't know when you don't know it? One cannot prove a negative.
And, if I look like a dirty old man who is about to be institutionalized, remember your very first comment to me the first time we met at the airport that day long ago--"I wanted to see what my husband is going to look like as we grow old together." So, I guess he's going to look like a dirty old man about to be institutionalized.
I really didn't want to do this, Katie, but you forced my hand--so, here's the example: Christianity didn't run with monotheism--it actually took a backward step to polytheism. (By the way, Christ had nothing to do with Christianity--he had been dead for over 300 years.) Paul, who had been Saul but changed his name to sound more Roman, needed to start a new religion since he had nothing better to do with his life.
The Jews told him where to go and so did the infidels who had all their household gods to dust.
So, he came up with the idea of creating a triumvirate--keep the Jewish god--whom the barbarians couldn't abide because they couldn't see, touch or dust him, and add another god or two to assuage the barbs. How to do it? Let god have a son.. Why not? But feng shui cannot abide even numbers, so a third was added.
Need it be said that the Jews still couldn't accept Paul's new religion--they had to wait until Ron Hubbard appeared on the scene--needless to say what happened to the Jews during the last couple of centuries--they should have followed Paul and saved themselves a lot of toil and trouble--but the barbs loved it. Especially since they could sing some good ol' gospel music on Sunday.
So, how do I know this? The third party of the triumvirate told me so. The Holy Ghost and I had a really great conversation sitting next to the fire place about two or so weeks ago.
I really didn't want to do this, Katie, but you forced my hand--so, here's the example: Christianity didn't run with monotheism--it actually took a backward step to polytheism. (By the way, Christ had nothing to do with Christianity--he had been dead for over 300 years.) Paul, who had been Saul but changed his name to sound more Roman, needed to start a new religion since he had nothing better to do with his life.
The Jews told him where to go and so did the infidels who had all their household gods to dust.
So, he came up with the idea of creating a triumvirate--keep the Jewish god--whom the barbarians couldn't abide because they couldn't see, touch or dust him, and add another god or two to assuage the barbs. How to do it? Let god have a son.. Why not? But feng shui cannot abide even numbers, so a third was added.
Need it be said that the Jews still couldn't accept Paul's new religion--they had to wait until Ron Hubbard appeared on the scene--needless to say what happened to the Jews during the last couple of centuries--they should have followed Paul and saved themselves a lot of toil and trouble--but the barbs loved it. Especially since they could sing some good ol' gospel music on Sunday.
So, how do I know this? The third party of the triumvirate told me so. The Holy Ghost and I had a really great conversation sitting next to the fire place about two or so weeks ago.
Sorry, the Holy Ghost had me hit the "enter" bar twice.
Survey says: Family Feud!
You know, it's sort of interesting to me that the majority of people in the west, while they may have heard of this incident and have certainly heard of the backlash, don't really know what has happened. The launched meme is that the Pope said Islam was violent and evil and Islam returned the favor by proving the Pope right.
As with most memes, this one contains enough truthiness to be dangerous. When asked what the actual quote was, most people can't tell you, or even where it came from. When asked what the quote was in reference to, again, most people draw a blank. They just know the Pope went after Islam and either villify him or cheer him on depending on their own sensibilities. Neither viewpoint, however, seems very well informed.
Given that we in the West supposedly have the most free and neutral media, it seems odd that, on several key points of the story, the majority of people don't have the full facts.
It is also interesting that the muslim world, at least the portion that is reacting in a way that sells papers in the west, lives under a much more "controlled" media system. Government officials and religious leaders are not above officially censoring news events or radically reinterpreting them to achieve their desired outcome.
So, at least to me, the most pertinant question out of all of this is: What are the muslims actually hearing and why aren't we insisting on the whole story?
I think Mitch just likes to hear himself talk or type or.....errrr dribble!
Jesus forgives you Mitch, even if I don't.
So much to say; so little time.
Mitch: Your son was on a one-way path to looloo land and then he gave up meat and The Drink (AKA Diet Coke). So I'm guessing that train wreck is a long way off.
Anon: He does like to hear himself talk. However, I like to hear him talk, too. So I got that goin' for me.
Quaker: The world don't know much. They're too busy watching premieres. That Charlie Sheen is f*cking hoot. I included the CNN link because I thought it was the most comprehensive reporting of the situation. Doin' my part, I suppose.
Sloan: You in New Delhi, yet?
Thanks for playing.
Kate, it's a great thing you included the link. Half of the problem in this country in, despite the ease and availability of information, we don't always exercise it. And I hope my comments weren't taken as me pointing a finger or anything, because I didn't mean them that way.
It was just something I was noticing the other day at a family funeral. Actually, at the meet and greet afterwards. I never know what to say at those things and the conversation generally peters out after, "Well, I haven't seen you since you were this high!" So I tend to talk politics, figuring that I'll either get some interesting conversation or people will be uncomfortable and leave of their own accord. Either way, I win!
I brought up the subject of the Pope's speech and thought it curious that my very salt-of-the-earth family (which is code for Well Meaning And Fundamentally Good But Pretty Much White Trash) could so easily fall into such categories and have rather vehement opinions one way or the other without possessing the full set of facts. That, in turn, made me wonder what it would be like to be a faithful muslim in a country where the news was fairly strictly constructed by the religious government.
Those thoughts sort of exploded all over your blog when they probably should have been let out in a controlled stream on my own, hopefully after more thought. :)
This is exactly where I'd want your well-thought out thoughts exploding. Keep it up. ;-)
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