Licensed to Ill
More crazy conversations from the classroom...
Don't kid yourself. Kenny is still thinking about what I said.One of my all-time best students, we'll call him Kenny, and I started at
Superior High School at the same time. I had him his freshman and sophomore
year, missed his junior year because I tried out two other local high schools,
and returned this year to see him graduate.
Kenny, my favorite little redneck, is a delight.
"Ms. Robinson, the principal took my confederate flag off my truck!"
"Did he?"
"Yeah, how's that for unfair? Says it offended people. Did you complain Ms. Robinson? Was it you?"
"It was not me," I said, laughing. "You and I have talked about this. I've tried to tell you the confederate flag is a racist symbol that made its comeback a hundred years after the Civil War ended in response to civil rights legislation of the 1960s. It was a message to black Southerners that they would not be considered legitimate members of society. It's a disgrace. But no, Kenny, I didn't complain about your flag."
"Southern pride, Ms. Robinson. It's all about southern pride."
"Let me ask you a question, Kenny."
"Anything."
"Do you like the Dixie Chicks?"
"No way!"
"Why not?"
"They're traitors! They trashed our country and don't care about our soldiers. They are on Saddam's side!"
"The Dixie Chicks said twelve words, Kenny. 'We are ashamed the President of the United States is from Texas.' And for that, they are traitors. For that, they deserve
to have their albums burned and for that, they deserve no career of any kind. I
see. Then explain something to me, please.
"Explain how you can proudly wave the emblem of a movement that sought to remove the South from the United States altogether and Form. Another. Country.
"A movement that sought to enslave human beings.
"A movement that took up arms against an American President and his soldiers.
"Cause if that ain't traitorous, jeez, Kenny, I don't know what is."
(Long pause.)
"C'mon Kenny, explain it to me."
"I don't know, Ms. Robinson. The Dixie Chicks are just retarded."
13 Comments:
Free speech is free speech is free speech.
Just tryin' to get kids to think about some sh*t. Not tramplin' on rights or sending him to Gitmo. Jeez.
Did I ever tell you about how I got kicked out of a bar in Lutz for requesting a Dixie Chicks song on their "Country Night"??? That was after I tried to get them to play anything other than country... Picky people! lol
Sure Jeff, free speach is free speach. That is until you try to use speech that the leaders don't want to hear. I'm sure it's free speech if someone wants to stand in the public park and talk about how great jesus is this time of year. How long do you think someone would be allowed to stand in the same park and talk about how great satan is, or allah is or what ever diety that doesn't conform to societies norms is?
We hold the right of free speech dear, but we also must hold the rights of all members of this great society even dearer. When free speech tramples on the rights of others, including the right to not have to hear, or view, supposed free speech that in reality attempts to harm others, it crosses the line.
Kate: I was talking about the principal there... sorry about the confusion.
Anonymous Coward:
Unless your speech is intended to incite direct harm on another (as held up by the courts) then you can say what you want. If a Satanist wants to go and preach in the park, he has every right. And he'll be there preaching away unless and until he makes a threat or incites the crowd. If some hick kid wants to put a Confederate flag on his car, fine. Now everyone knows he's (likely) a racist bastard.
"When free speech tramples on the rights of others, including the right to not have to hear, or view, supposed free speech that in reality attempts to harm others, it crosses the line." This is the most dangerous idea circulating in our society right now. And from what I've seen it's generally uttered by right-wing evangelicals that want to stifle anything that's not "good Christian" speech.
One other thing AC: You can always walk away from the Satanist preacher. Or you can turn the radio dial. Or switch the TV channel if what you see or hear offends you. That's your right.
And Free Speech is THE right. There are none above it.
I agree with Jeff. Free speech doesn't trample on the rights of others. It's an important and guaranteed American right - that allows many other rights to flourish.
If you don't like said speech, walk away.
Thank you, AP. Now go get some sleep. ;-)
okay, so we got the initial standard of review correct in that freedom of speech is a fundamental right guaranteed by the Constitution. as such, the Court will weigh the great importance of speech and assembly rights against the interests or policies sought to be served by a regulation.
however, we need to go a little further in the analysis. speech and assembly regulations can generally be categorized as either content regulations (regulations forbidding communications of specific ideas) or conduct regulations (regulations of the conduct associated with speaking). different standards are used to assess the validity of a regulation within each category.
first, all regulations of speech are subject to the following restrictions: the reasonableness of the regulation and the scope of speech (including the freedom not to speak and symbolic speech).
because we have the freedom not to speak, the government cannot require people to do things with which they disagree (i.e. a high schooler can sit on his bum during the pledge of allegiance). as for symbolic acts, such as wearing a black armband or burning draft cards, the government may regulate such conduct if it has an important interest in the regulation independent of the speech aspects of the conduct and the incidental burden on speech is no greater than necessary. so, to faciliate a smooth draft, the government can prohibit the burning of draft cards.
second, dealing specifically with the example of someone blabbing in a public park, the government has the power to regulate the conduct (time, place and manner restrictions) associated with the speech and assembly, although the breadth of this power depends on the forum in which the speech or assembly is to occur.
there are three types of forums: 1) public (parks, sidewalks, streets), 2) nonpublic (military bases, schools, government work places) and 3) private (your house, privately owned mall). there are different standards of review based on the forum choosen. this is one reason why things that occur on school grounds can be regulated in a broader manner than other venues.
so, in fact, you may not be able to go to a public park and yell whatever you like. your town/city may have regulations such as "you cannot yell (fill in the blank) at 3:00 am". these issues tend to make news when they're associated with parades and who is allowed to march versus who is not.
third, and final!, you would also have to look at what is being said, because then you would have to consider regulation based on content and those categories of speech that have be deemed unprotected (inciting imminent lawless action, obscenities).
primarily becaues free speech is a fundamental right, there is more to look at than (and i paraphrase here) you can say what you want, unless your speech is intended to incite direct harm. the Court has defined numerous standards based on various factors in order to guarantee the right of speech, not only for the individual, but also for the group.
alas, it can never be as simple as "free speech is free speech is free speech."
My student *Kenny* loves that this is generating such a high-falutin' discussion.
"Should I sue, Ms. Robinson?"
When I said the "Free speech is free speech..." deal I was heading off what I thought would be the eventual rush of comments about the bigot and how he should have the flag removed. But that never came (thankfully).
I have no love for the Confederacy or anything it stood for. But their flag seems to be the one thing that makes "lefties" go all nuts. Folks'll go on and on about how the dirty evil Republicans are stifling free speech if a kid wears a "Bush Sucks" shirt to school and is sent home. But they'll just kind of sit idly by as some other kid is booted out for the Confederate flag.
Which isn't to say that it's just the left. Both sides of the aisle have their fair share of folks who will cry "FREE SPEECH!!!!" when it would protect the expression of their point of view. But they'll then do nothing, or even argue against free speech, when it would protect the expression of opposing ideas.
When we start to cherry pick what is and is not protected speech we are starting down the slippery slope.
Yeah, that's why I never formally complain about the confederate flag on cars or shirts at school because they're allowed to express themselves that way as far as I'm concerned. Besides - it leads to a great discussion about how that flag has *nothing* to do with southern pride and everything to do with racism. See? If the kids couldn't wear them, I'd never get the chance to lecture. How sad would that be?
And Kate perfectly illustrates why you don't want to stifle speech.
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