Pray for Me
I pray every day. (C'mon, think about my life. Wouldn't you?) Feels good and gives me time to reflect on ways to be a better person.
All my life, I've been into the power of prayer, the power of positive thoughts. We can make ourselves sick, so it stands to reason we can make ourselves well, too. Right? Of course, right.
Then I read this article. F*cked me all up.
Most thought-provoking quote in a sea of thought-provoking quotes:
You could prove to the satisfaction of every scientist that intercessory prayerHe's right, ya know. He's. Right.
works if you set up a simple experiment. Get a billion Christians to pray for a
single amputee. Get them to pray that God regrow that missing limb. This happens
to salamanders every day, presumably without prayer; this is within the capacity
of God. I find it interesting that people of faith only tend to pray for
conditions that are self-limiting.
So what are we doing on our knees every night?
posted by kate @ 5:51 AM
14 comments
14 Comments:
Pray, don't pray it's up to you. If a person spends all their time critiquing those that seek solace from speaking to a greater power, perhaps they're lacking a great deal in their own life. The power of prayer is found in the peace, encouragement, and focus it provides. Faith is just that, placing one's belief in something that you can't see touch or prove is there, but something inside you just tells you that it's right. Is it right for everyone? Who the F#%$ cares? Think sure, but never forget to feel. Otherwise, what point is there to being?
>>You could prove to the satisfaction of every scientist that intercessory prayer works if you set up a simple experiment. Get a billion Christians to pray for a single amputee. Get them to pray that God regrow that missing limb. This happens to salamanders every day, presumably without prayer; this is within the capacity of God. I find it interesting that people of faith only tend to pray for conditions that are self-limiting.<<
Prespective.
First of all, why would I care if scientists are convinced of something or not? That has no bearing to me on spiritual matters. Second of all, just because we pray to God and ask that a particular thing happen doesn't mean that God is going to do it. He can say 'yes,' He can say 'no,' or He can say 'wait.' His option. And it doesn't matter if one person prays for the same thing or a billion. With all prayer, our attitude should be "Not my will, but your's (Lord) be done."
As for paying for things that are "self-limiting," I've prayed for many things to work out that are seemingly impossible at the time, but I put my trust in God to see me through. That doesn't mean I can pray to God for the planet Jupiter to go spinning out of the solar sytem and realistically expect that to happen, though I believe it's within the capacity of God to do so if He wanted.
I dunno, I can use prayer as a meditation or opportunity to get my thoughts in line. Definitely can't hurt to pray so why not give it a shot.
I guess I was so convinced for so long that someone was listening, it sort of bums me out that it probably ain't so.
Meh, funny thing is even if the proposed experiment was a success for in favor of the believers, it would then require repeatability or fail as any scientific proof. And if God came through yet again, what then of faith? With such indisputible "proof" there is no faith required. If Faith is God's litmus test then such proof would require him to change his experiment and start over. I'm not convinced that the God mentioned in the Bible or the Torah or the Koran or any other book is what is out there, but I'm convinced that something greater is so it provides a measure of comfort. For me, if there was nothing beyond biology, physics and chemistry(and so on..), then why should I as a thinking individual give a damn about anything but hedonism. What gain is there for me as an individual to pass along my genes, care about the future of the planet or even the suffering of animals and others? I should maximize my pleasure while I'm here and leave no more than a smoking hole when I depart. I care because I feel there is right and wrong as measured by more than society's current opinion.
Besides as near as I've understood, God only promised to hear, he never said he'd answer or that you'd like the answer if he did. Of course if it turned out to be the greatest ruse of all time, did I really miss anything if I lived a healthier, kinder, and more forward-looking life?
What I've often wondered is when an atheist is at death's door, do they have any regrets other than not having more time. Do they regret hurting another, or some other misdeed? If so, biologically, why would there be any regret for anything at that moment other than missed opportunity for procreation? Is it merely the remnants of the concience that made us more likely to have offspring left over from a time when we were less developed?
It's still just a basic question we each must seek to answer within ourselves. What will make you a better person in your own eyes?
I wish there was an "I don't care" category when speaking of the existence of God. Believers have a whole bunch of categories to place themselves in, non-believers with certainty about it are atheists, questioners have agnostic to claim as a title. What about me? Don't know, don't think about it, don't really care one way or the other. I've self identified as Heathen, but that's not typically available on the forms.
Port Tampa
So, I see you were driven to not allow anonymous comments. I guess I'll be ecf pres, which means nothing in Florida, from now on.
The commenter formerly known as Port Tampa.
ecf pres.
I apologize if this comes across as snarky, it's not meant to, but if you truly don't care, why would you feel compelled to interject in a discussion regarding the topic? Those that don't know, don't care, and don't really think about it, really don't require a label(well no one does truly since labels pigeonhole positions way too much when it comes to complex issues like this) since they're sort of outside the scope of the issue. If you're being forceably included then "I don't know, I don't care, and I don't really think about it" should be adequate.
>>I guess I was so convinced for so long that someone was listening, it sort of bums me out that it probably ain't so.<<
Kate, you really lost me with that statement. Please clarify what you mean.
Is God answering your prayer by granting your requests in the manner you wish He would grant it proof that He is listening to you? What if God knows better and can see that what you desire in your prayer is not truly what is best for you. Isn't that also answering your prayer?
I'll restate: With all prayer, our attitude should be "Not my will, but your's (Lord) be done."
Anything other than that and you're setting yourself up to be disappointed.
RW - I very strongly believe in praying "Let God's Will be done and help us all to deal with the consequences whatever they may be." I am smart enough to know that I don't know so much! God - He, She, It, They - is/are SO much more capable of making important decisions about me and my life then I am. The trick for me is remembering this when things don't work out the way I had hoped.(not prayed for but hoped for)
Drive By - I think at the very least, ECF stating that she/he really didn't care opened my eyes a bit. I didn't realize there were people who took this stance. I unfairly lumped them into the agnostic category - so thanks for sharing ECF.
RW - I guess I'm saying it's getting harder to believe. I definitely do not believe in a God that would get involved in one's person's prayer but all those people who were praying when the tower's went down? Not so much.
I don't find any comfort in "It's God's will" and won't pretend otherwise.
So maybe God isn't all powerful. That's the premise behind a really good book by Rabbi Kushner called "When Bad Things Happen to Good People." That book provided some comfort.
Either that, or there is no God.
Not sure anymore. Too much suffering for me to think otherwise.
Kate, remember Job. God permitted Satan to take away all that he had, and his attitude was this:
Job 1:20-22
"Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly."
Odd as it may seem, it's when you have the most doubts in life that you need to learn to lean on God the most.
I believe you'll find your way through all this if you put your trust in Him.
See, the way I look at it, we either have a God who is all powerful and gets involved or we don't. And I cannot believe that God could get involved in the suffering of children but chooses not to.
I cannot.
It brings ZERO comfort to say, well, God knows best. No, I see those kids suffering and I think it should stop. And I don't believe in a God that would let that happen.
So I believe that God is simply evolving like the rest of us and is not all powerful.
And sometimes I don't even believe in Him at all.
Just trying to work it all out in my head is all. Thanks for helping it along.
Sounds like you're creating God in your own image.
However you want to look at it.
Basically - regarding God and prayer and afterlife and so on - I'm not sure. And not at all afraid or ashamed to admit it.
That's all.
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