God's Followers and Me
I’m going to attempt to sort out why so many Christian conservatives are dismayed by me.
A great many believers are okay with and sometimes even understand how I could teeter on the edge of atheism. It doesn’t take a crisis of faith to look around at children and innocent people suffering all over the world and wonder, “What the f*ck?”
Those who understand such doubt, even while not sharing in it, are what I like to call Sound Thinkers. They tend to be honest with themselves and therefore everyone else. Unfortunately, Colorado Springs is not known for its intellectual honesty. And so I find myself amidst a group of folks who, while kind-hearted and well-meaning, don’t know what to make of me.
They might be filled with doubt themselves or just hopelessly in need of guidance. And instead of finding the strength within or searching for answers in the world of what we know – they turn to religion with such blind devotion they cannot possibly understand why everyone else doesn't jump in with them. They surround themselves with likeminded robots and vilify those of us who have the audacity to think for ourselves.
And then along comes me.
They can’t vilify me because I’m nice to them. They can’t blow me off as some kind of braindead hippie because I don’t do drugs and it’s obvious I’m sorta smart.
“What the hell is wrong with her?” they wonder. Sometimes out loud.
I bother them on a level they can’t quite understand. But I do believe I’ve figured it out.
Atheists, agnostics, and “other” nonbelievers are supposed to be unhappy creatures outside the light of the Lord. We’re supposed to be doomed and eternally damned. It’s easy to think of strangers as doomed. Not so easy, though, when one of them works in the classroom next door and has such sweet blue eyes.
How can I live a good and happy life? How can I maintain a solid marriage and raise two wonderful, well-adjusted children? How can I be at peace with myself, the world, and everyone in it? Most of the time anyway…
All without believing in an all-powerful God and without a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Why isn’t there something wrong with me?
My critics would argue there’s plenty wrong with me. But they don’t really know me. The people who are a part of my life know the complexities of a thinking, stubborn, and opinionated woman, but none would doubt my happy, healthy outlook on life.
Co-Worker #1 once said that if he didn’t believe in God and Jesus, if he found out they didn’t exist, he’d kill himself. He asked me how I make it through the day without faith.
And so he proves my point.
I make it through the day because I have faith in myself. I’m not an atheist; however, I do have my doubts. And when I’m ready to jump ship, God always seems to speak to me. (Or maybe it’s gas.) So I remain a slightly unconvinced member of the tribe surrounded by fellow Jews and traditions I adore.
And I get through the day because I’m guided by the belief that I’m required to leave behind a better world for my children, my nieces, my nephews and kids everywhere. The ones who don’t grow up to be assholes, that is.
The meaning of life? Simple. To do good. To love and be loved.
That’s how God, whoever or whatever he/she/it is, speaks to me. And it bothers my new neighbors to see someone living a decent life while ignoring their essential ingredients.
Makes them doubt the power of those ingredients.
posted by kate @ 9:50 AM
13 comments
13 Comments:
There is an "intervention and baptism" committee forming right now for your redemption. It won't be long before you are snatched off the street and returned to loving arms of Jesus!
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
There are 375,000 residents in Colorado Springs. I'm gonna guess at minimum there are 373,000 of those residents who don't even know you're alive, and don't really let it effect their day, so rest easy.
You did at least claim you were going to "attempt" to sort out answers. But if you want to believe that what you do and what you say bothers them, and even if you did it would be for the reasons you claim, then go for it.
If you ever want to discuss it in a way that's productive, you have my e-mail address. You're a lot easier to talk to about things when you're not trying to show off for the cameras.
Great post.
But don't you want to join New Life and help build another monstrous 'worship center' in the field they have reserved next to their current monstrous 'worship center'?
You know, cause building monstrous 'worship centers' assures you a seat in heaven.
Yeah, the world needs another "Waco" compound for the Lord. Because from what I know, he was into that.
Co-Worker #1 once said that if he didn’t believe in God and Jesus, if he found out they didn’t exist, he’d kill himself.
You know, I've never really understand that attitude when I encounter it among my theistic friends and acquaintances. It's based on the argument, "Without Deity, life is essentially meaningless and morality is unimportant."
Leaving aside for the moment the notion that atheism doesn't necessarily preclude belief in an afterlife, the whole idea of life being meaningless, and therefore worthless, without deity just doesn't make logical sense to me and argues for a fundamental lack of self-exploration of belief. Do such believers revere life because it is an amazing gift or only because it comes from The Watchmaker? It's like a skit from Absolutely Fabulous: The outfit is only good if it's got a big name label.
As a theist myself, I believe doubt is good. A tested faith leads to not only a stronger faith, but the development of an empathic nature in terms of personal spiritual paths that is key to my chosen Christian faith, a faith largely built on a personal relationship with living divinity. Christ himself doubted and God didn't appear to think any less of him for it. Perhaps most importantly, though, doubt stops one from making over-the-top statements, like your coworker's, out of fear. Indeed, one might argue that it allows the modern theist to move past the fear-based paradigm of religion completely, to enter into a more mature understanding of and relationship with deity.
>>You know, I've never really understand that attitude when I encounter it among my theistic friends and acquaintances. It's based on the argument, "Without Deity, life is essentially meaningless and morality is unimportant."<<
I wouldn't say that's the argument at all. It's more along the lines of "A life devoted in service to others and a life devoted to eat drink, and be merry, are both equally as vain as the other because both will end in death (of which there is no beyond)." Read Ecclesiastes.
Now, the former will try and convince themselves that their life was more pious than the latter because of how they lived their life. But in the end, that's all it is, just their opinion (and those which agree with them) they are more pious. Doesn't mean anything except to them and how they (and others who agree with them) want to view their actions, of which their views are no more correct than the other (except to them, and so what?).
Actually I have more respect for the latter than the former, because if this life is all there is, then eat, drink and be merry is the way to go. You may have some who believe you wasted your life when it could have been lived in service to others, but why care what they think or say about you when you're gone? You're dead! It certainly isn't going to matter to you anymore. And 1000 years later no one's gonna care either way.
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if this life is all there is, then eat, drink and be merry is the way to go.
I would disagree with that interpretation, at least I would if it is taken to the extreme of sybaritic hedonism, and I think that points out a fundamental character difference. I
f this is all the life there is and there's no divine judgment, that to me would mean one's own moral system and actions are paramount. One doesn't (or rather, the mature individual shouldn't) behave in a moral way, in a way that attributes value to life, out of fear, either of public condemnation or divine judgment. One should behave in a moral fashion and attribute value to life because it is right to do so. Only then are moral actions and life valued in a meaningful way.
If the first response to the removal of fear is orgiastic indulgence and an utter abandonment of morality and values, then that strongly argues the individual was never acting in a moral way or attributing value to life in the first place and was only acting out of fear of judgment.
The burden of one's morality doesn't (or shouldn't) rest on one's fear of God or one's fellow man. Taking away that fear (not necessarily the divinity, mind you, but the fear paradigm) makes one's actions uniquely one's own.
Thus, it makes one's actions even more important because, truly, if one acts without morality and in a way that fails to value one's unique life and there is no fear paradigm, then that is an utterly immoral and worthless life. So while it's certainly appropriate to eat, drink and be merry a portion of the time, an entire life of pursing such ends is largely a waste.
Personally, I have no respect for the squandering of a a unique opportunity, divine judgment or no.
Umm. What QJ said.
RW, I'm not showing off for anyone. But when you and other Representatives for Christ say things like, "It certainly isn't going to matter to you anymore. And 1000 years later no one's gonna care either way." - I know yours is not the club for me.
My actions, whether as a parent or concerned citizen, will matter in 1000 years. And that's why they matter right now. Not because I'm going to be in heaven getting an attagirl slap on the ass from God. That's why Christians do good. To be rewarded in heaven. I do good because I'm required to.
Not big on intent, I care more about good behavior and not the reasons behind it. So it don't matter.
And the sight of an at-peace heretic in the presence of godly people clearly bothers a few of those godly ones and that, along with a genuine and sometimes-sweet desire to save my soul, leads them in my room to talk about scripture on an almost-daily basis.
And I'd say only about 370,000 haven't discovered me yet. But they'll find out soon enough, baby. Bet on it.
>>If this is all the life there is and there's no divine judgment, that to me would mean one's own moral system and actions are paramount.... One should behave in a moral fashion and attribute value to life because it is right to do so. Only then are moral actions and life valued in a meaningful way.<<
In a scenerio where there is no Diety, what is morality? Is it what mankind says it is since mankind is the highest order of living creatures? Would we then go by what a majority of mankind deems to be moral and immoral as being the standard? Argumentum ad numerum. One would have no reason to beleive that one system of morality was anymore pious than another, it would just be a matter of one's personal opinion. Live to serve others and eat, drink and be merry are equally as viable except to the individual who would place one higher than the other.
>>My actions, whether as a parent or concerned citizen, will matter in 1000 years. And that's why they matter right now.<<
I already addressed that when I said "Now, the former will try and convince themselves that their life was more pious than the latter because of how they lived their life. But in the end, that's all it is, just their opinion." You can certainly beleive that someone 1000 years ago no one even remembers did something that today effected your life in a positive way, but that's all it is, your belief in that.
But the victim mentality wears thin. No one wants to vilify you. No one's going around wondering why you're not sad because you aren't like them. And this notion that you're an independent thinker and the others are likeminded robots is laughable at it's best. They'll blow you off for that alone and you won't even realize they did it.
The whole things a nice attempt to place yourself on a pedestool, or to somehow believe you have an understanding of them in a way they don't have about you, but it's not reality. You're floating out in space somewhere on this one.
I was raised Catholic, which some people beleive will condemn me to hell. I experienced a heart-opening / eye-opening while attending a Baptist church with a friend. No, I wasn't actually listening to the sermon. I had confessed all my sins, or all the things I done that I thought were wrong. For some reason, I saw all the good things I had ever done: defending girls being beaten up, calling in the troops for an offensive, even my 22 years of service in the Army as contributing to the evil that is in this world. I saw myself just as evil as Adolf Hitler, Southern lynch mobs, and the Japanese soldiers who massacred Nanjing residents. Just look at the 10 commandments. As much as we try, we disobey them. Even a thought like 'the driver who just cut me off is an asshole' is a step toward violence, non-love for my fellow human being, a sin. My beliefs, which I had passed on to my children, were corrupt and corrupting. My way of viewing the world was a like a virus that attacks your computer, except it really attacks humanity. I begged God, not a priest, for forgiveness. I asked God to work in my heart. I'm really trying to listen now because I know that my own thinking is corrupt. I pray, ponder, ask for more forgiveness, and continue beleiving that God does work in our lives. Take care Kate. God bless you.
I don't understand what's so hard about all of this. Do we have know, in a rational, empirical way if there is an afterlife for our consciousness? If so, we wouldn't be having this debate. Has anyone actually seen a god (or gods) (outside of people like my brother who had a long talk with Jesus after swallowing a little too much Windowpane Acid)?
I didn't think so.
Does this mean god or the afterlife doesn't exist? No.
Even if god and the afterlife do exist, do we know which god? Hell and damnation or love and forgiveness? Zeus or Thor? Or any of the thousands of religions on this earth (or on other planets)?
Whatever works for you.
Most people are in religions of their parents (like their political party). They were there in their formative years, so it's bound to feel like a home of sorts. It's not right or wrong, it's just a warm blanket on a cool night. Heck, I will even accompany my Mom to mass and get my "warm and fuzzies" because of the familiarity to the words and motions.
But that doesn't make it wrong or right. But it is comforting, and that is OK.
I'm agnostic.
When I pray, I start of with "Dear God, if there is a God...
I'm not so vain as to think that my humble, limited mind can wrap around if, who and what god is. The greatest minds in the world have yet to discover a proof one way or another, so how could I?
Even granting there is a deity(ies), which one?
"God works in mysterious ways" is the phrase that is used when a child dies or war happens. To which my mind screams, "If he is so mysterious, how the hell am I supposed to know what he wants?"
So, you may ask, where do you get your moral code?
That's easy. Does it hurt when it's done to me? Then I don't do it to others.
Is someone in pain or need and I can help. I help.
Easy stuff, right?
Yeah, there are some calls you have to make, like where to draw the line on personal sacrifice or are you really helping with the fish or should you be teaching fishing? Or in places where pleasure and pain are close.
Also, because of my limited knowledge, it's ok for others to believe what they want, as long as their belief doesn't tell them that to be holy they have to hurt me. That's not ok.
It isn't rocket science. It really is the basis of Christianity (Do unto others...). It makes sense.
If someone is doing things that hurt people in society, take them out of society and help them become better and don't let them loose unless and until they are reformed. If they can't get along, they stay in "time-out".
You have the right to defend yourself from harm but not to be the aggressor.
You can't save someone by killing them but if they die from your self-defense, it's ok.
A drink is ok but to live in the bottle isn't.
Moderation.
Love.
Help.
We all make mistakes.
Be willing to forgive others and yourself.
It's not rocket science.
Thanks, Kate, and the rest of y'all (I'm in SC, that's just how we address a group of people informally), for a lively and thoughtful discussion. Really. Also, thanks to Chase Squires for posting your link.
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